Q & A Session Notes

Q: After listening to your sermon it is clear that you believe some church people have misused the scriptures in a way that has been harmful, in the past to women and blacks, and more recently to homosexuals. How are we to discern which parts of the bible to take as history or fact and which parts to view differently?

A (Wilke): As United Methodists we look to John Wesley in answering this. Wesley said God intends for us to read scripture using our minds. Second, God expects us to interpret scripture with our hearts. If we experience the love of God in our hearts it will be at work helping us to interpret scripture. Third, Wesley taught us to read scripture using the lens of tradition: what did the early church fathers and the great saints and scholars thru history think about this? And fourth, we are to use scripture to understand scripture. Scripture should glorify Jesus, Wesley said. Look at the debates people are having about creation. Many great scientists roll their eyes because they believe that God created everything there is… but not in 24 hours! The “creation story” conveys the truth, but it does it in a “mythical” fashion. We have to keep cultural context in mind. When the statement in Corinth was made about women not speaking, it was in the context of women who were at that time uneducated talking about things they did not understand and Paul suggested they go home and talk to their husbands who were educated and knew more about the subjects. In another place, Paul says that in Christ there is neither male nor female! John Wesley would tell us to use our minds and interpret these passages in a way that makes sense and is consistent with Jesus’ messages.

Using scripture to understand scripture demands that we examine what Jesus said and did. Jesus got in trouble about many things. For example, the Pharisees did everything just right, strictly according to the law. They didn’t eat pork, they didn’t even touch pork and they washed their hands ceremonially before eating in case they had touched anything that had been in contact with pork. Jesus said that it is not what goes into your mouth but what comes out of your mouth that counts! That got him into trouble with the Pharisees.

We need to look at the whole of scripture and use our minds and our experience to hear what God is saying through scripture! Fundamentalists pick a phrase and go with it. We are not caught in that trap. We say, “What is God trying to say to us?” Don’t get hung up on one passage to the exclusion of other passages, other experience, other rationale, and other scripture.

Wilke says he is a Jesus Christian; not a church Christian or a Bible Christian. He wants to look at everything through the eyes of Jesus. Someone told him once “Jesus is like the North Star; He won’t lead you astray.” Don’t throw the Bible out, but read it all! Don’t pick one passage to hang your hat on.

Q: What do you say to someone who is proof texting and quoting a specific bible passage to make their point?

A (Audience): Tell them you go to your church and I’ll go to mine!

A (Audience): The bible says the only way to heaven is through JESUS…. not through the bible!

A (Wilke): You might say, “Remember there is also this passage which says…” Paul Tillich says the great sin of the church is denominationalism. Those today who want to do it their way and split the church, it violates the spirit of love that we are supposed to embrace.

Q: What can a local church do in the Reconciling effort?

A (Wilke): There are Reconciling Congregations who fly the flag and declare that all are welcome. There are other churches that have a Reconciling Sunday School class. It is for parents of GLBT persons, GLBT persons themselves, and others sympathetic to the issue. Other churches have a support group that welcomes anyone interested in the issue, including parents of GLBT who are struggling with accepting a gay child, etc. Another approach is to have a counseling pastor who works with people struggling with GLBT issues in their families.

Q: If we fly the flag of a reconciling congregation, is there any danger that we will be split from the larger church?

A (Wilke): We talk both sides of this issue in our social principles, but our only RULE is that you cannot be an ordained minister if you are a self-avowed homosexual. So local churches are not in danger of any action being taken against them.

Q: I am a college student and I have lots of GLBT friends who have been hurt by the church. What can I do?

A (Audience): Start by saying you are sorry; that you are a member of the church and that you regret any hurtful experiences that they have had with the church. Apologize first and then profess… tell them where you are on the issue and where other Christians are on the issue.

A (Audience): A church can unfortunately be one of the most judgmental places and can be one of the hardest places to find someone to talk to about it! We need to be mindful of this and try to change it.

A (Wilke): We believe in marriage, but we offer programs and acceptance of people who have had problems in their marriage. We are human beings! We make mistakes. We learn and grow along the way hopefully! We just need to do the best we can.

Q: If we fly the flag, some will leave our church! Should we be worried about that?

A (Wilke): Your Finance Secretary will probably be worried!

A (Audience): On the other hand, there are members of our church who are impatient and wondering what is taking us so long to proclaim acceptance. And if we don’t act, we may well lose those people!

A (Audience): I belonged to a church where we wrote an inclusive statement (listing all races, genders, ages, sexual orientations, etc) and we publicized it about once a month in the bulletin.

A (Wilke): Talking about being a loving fellowship can go a long way.

Q: How do you answer people who say you are doing the work of the devil?

A (Wilke): Tell them we are a Jesus people... that confuses them!

Closing Comment (Audience): Somehow we need to raise the flag in some way so people KNOW whether we are accepting or not. If someone looks in the phone book to find a church there is no way to know if our church would be welcoming to GLBT persons or not. That information needs to be up front.

Closing Comment (Wilke): Focus on the Lord Jesus Christ, His love, His acceptance, and try to live that out.

Closing Comment (Reconciling Hearts Chair): We can make a difference! Don’t let stereotypical remarks go by. We are not aiming for tolerance, but for acceptance. Let us go with God! Amen